Comments on: Incarnational Ministry? http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/ Where youthful Barthianism never dies Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:24:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Elias Da Silva http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3542 Elias Da Silva Sat, 17 May 2008 20:22:08 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3542 nice minicord nice minicord

]]> By: minicord http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3541 minicord Fri, 16 May 2008 13:25:18 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3541 I always practice an incarnational ministry - I take my body with me whatever ministry I'm doing. I always practice an incarnational ministry – I take my body with me whatever ministry I’m doing.

]]> By: Elias Da Silva http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3540 Elias Da Silva Wed, 14 May 2008 21:19:03 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3540 Not to create new terms or empty cpiphers, but an emphasis on the coming alongside, the parakeltos of the Christian community, the coming alongside. I agree with you as far as what incarnational seems to mean, just like most everything, what it attempted to do has come out backwards. Not to create new terms or empty cpiphers, but an emphasis on the coming alongside, the parakeltos of the Christian community, the coming alongside. I agree with you as far as what incarnational seems to mean, just like most everything, what it attempted to do has come out backwards.

]]> By: Chris TerryNelson http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3539 Chris TerryNelson Tue, 13 May 2008 13:56:14 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3539 Hill, I agree that it does devalue the concept of incarnation, since it is <i>sui generis</i>. However bad the use of the term, the message really is needed in churches which have trouble believing in the true humanity of Jesus, and thus have trouble believing that God has redeemed all of humanity. Is exhibit A meant for the Driscoll post? It's a fantastic example of penal substitution without the Trinity. Hill,
I agree that it does devalue the concept of incarnation, since it is sui generis. However bad the use of the term, the message really is needed in churches which have trouble believing in the true humanity of Jesus, and thus have trouble believing that God has redeemed all of humanity.

Is exhibit A meant for the Driscoll post? It’s a fantastic example of penal substitution without the Trinity.

]]> By: Hill http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3538 Hill Mon, 12 May 2008 16:17:21 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3538 Exhibit A: "You have been told that God is a loving, gracious, merciful, kind, compassionate, wonderful, and good sky fairy who runs a day care in the sky and has a bucket of suckers for everyone because we're all good people. That is a lie... God looks down and says 'I hate you, you are my enemy, and I will crush you,' and we say that is deserved, right and just, and then God says 'Because of Jesus I will love you and forgive you.' This is a miracle." -Mark Driscoll Exhibit A:

“You have been told that God is a loving, gracious, merciful, kind, compassionate, wonderful, and good sky fairy who runs a day care in the sky and has a bucket of suckers for everyone because we’re all good people. That is a lie… God looks down and says ‘I hate you, you are my enemy, and I will crush you,’ and we say that is deserved, right and just, and then God says ‘Because of Jesus I will love you and forgive you.’ This is a miracle.”

-Mark Driscoll

]]> By: Hill http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3537 Hill Mon, 12 May 2008 16:11:01 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3537 Just to respond briefly to Chris: I think it devalues the concept of incarnation. The same crowd that is likely to refer to ministries as "incarnational" typically also holds to penal, substitutionary conceptions of the atonement, which are frankly speaking bankrupt, and so I think it is clear to see how this kind of language goes hand in hand with either a total lacuna of any developed understanding of the incarnation or just bad incarnational theology. Just to respond briefly to Chris: I think it devalues the concept of incarnation. The same crowd that is likely to refer to ministries as “incarnational” typically also holds to penal, substitutionary conceptions of the atonement, which are frankly speaking bankrupt, and so I think it is clear to see how this kind of language goes hand in hand with either a total lacuna of any developed understanding of the incarnation or just bad incarnational theology.

]]> By: Chris TerryNelson http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3536 Chris TerryNelson Mon, 12 May 2008 15:44:41 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3536 Thanks Halden. As far as I can tell, incarnational is just a way of saying we're going to be really really concrete with folks. Just like Jesus got down-to-earth with folks, so should we. It's a way of affirming ministry within the messiness of people's lives. Can you clarify how it suppresses the many for the sake of the one? Are you speaking of the church's hierarchical leadership or making a more theological claim? Blessings, ~Chris Thanks Halden. As far as I can tell, incarnational is just a way of saying we’re going to be really really concrete with folks. Just like Jesus got down-to-earth with folks, so should we. It’s a way of affirming ministry within the messiness of people’s lives.

Can you clarify how it suppresses the many for the sake of the one? Are you speaking of the church’s hierarchical leadership or making a more theological claim?
Blessings,
~Chris

]]> By: nick http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3535 nick Sat, 10 May 2008 03:27:42 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3535 you're right to sound a caution against iterations of "incarnational" ministry that operate in non-vulnerable ways--what with the surge of "irresistible revolution" mania among college students who romanticize a particular style of life. but then i think of ministries like Word Made Flesh, a missions organization whose name explicitly avows some sort of incarnational rationale for what it does, and yet does not capitulate to a sort of heroism or paternalism. i also think of some other new monastic communities that are deeply aware of these potential missteps. i have many theologically capable friends involved with groups like these, and i don't sense in them a messianic self-consciousness, but humility. in fact, more often than not i overhear stories of people learning to receive grace from the poor and finding out what it means to need fellowship with the poor. the following article: http://www.lausanneworldpulse.com/812/09-2007 you’re right to sound a caution against iterations of “incarnational” ministry that operate in non-vulnerable ways–what with the surge of “irresistible revolution” mania among college students who romanticize a particular style of life.

but then i think of ministries like Word Made Flesh, a missions organization whose name explicitly avows some sort of incarnational rationale for what it does, and yet does not capitulate to a sort of heroism or paternalism. i also think of some other new monastic communities that are deeply aware of these potential missteps. i have many theologically capable friends involved with groups like these, and i don’t sense in them a messianic self-consciousness, but humility. in fact, more often than not i overhear stories of people learning to receive grace from the poor and finding out what it means to need fellowship with the poor.

the following article:
http://www.lausanneworldpulse.com/812/09-2007

]]> By: Halden http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3534 Halden Fri, 09 May 2008 23:55:26 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3534 It seems to me that it means the opposite for us of what it means in the economy of salvation. We stay the same, but we "come alongside" the poor, or children or some other group and we call that incarnational. But in so doing we never make ourselves vulnerable to them, we actually remain completely aloof and independent. Rather insidious really. It seems to me that it means the opposite for us of what it means in the economy of salvation. We stay the same, but we “come alongside” the poor, or children or some other group and we call that incarnational. But in so doing we never make ourselves vulnerable to them, we actually remain completely aloof and independent. Rather insidious really.

]]> By: Hill http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3533 Hill Fri, 09 May 2008 23:14:06 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3533 Right on. People use words like "incarnational" as empty ciphers for "theology/ministry/stuff I think is awesome." One has to ask the question: is "incarnationality" something for which human beings can or ought to strive? It seems to be nonsensical on its face. We are born carnate. God became man (was incarnated) that man might become God (theosis). Seems like that's more along the lines of what we ought to be seeking. I think if the term "incarnational" has any meaning useful meaning in this context, it is to stress this point, that Christ became man that he could elevate humanity to Trinitarian communion, that our Christian life is not aimed at sloughing off our humanity but fulfilling it. Right on. People use words like “incarnational” as empty ciphers for “theology/ministry/stuff I think is awesome.” One has to ask the question: is “incarnationality” something for which human beings can or ought to strive? It seems to be nonsensical on its face. We are born carnate. God became man (was incarnated) that man might become God (theosis). Seems like that’s more along the lines of what we ought to be seeking. I think if the term “incarnational” has any meaning useful meaning in this context, it is to stress this point, that Christ became man that he could elevate humanity to Trinitarian communion, that our Christian life is not aimed at sloughing off our humanity but fulfilling it.

]]> By: Geoff http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2008/05/09/incarnational-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-3532 Geoff Fri, 09 May 2008 22:25:32 +0000 http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/?p=591#comment-3532 I remember when I first came upon the term my freshman year of college. My first assumption was that an incarnational ministry was one in which people gave up their rights for the sake of the other's well being. My assumption was that they were drawing from Paul in Phil 2 and 1Corinthians 8:1-11:1 But I think it really means, "trying really hard to be cool." I remember when I first came upon the term my freshman year of college. My first assumption was that an incarnational ministry was one in which people gave up their rights for the sake of the other’s well being. My assumption was that they were drawing from Paul in Phil 2 and 1Corinthians 8:1-11:1 But I think it really means, “trying really hard to be cool.”

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