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	<title>Comments on: Why JPII Should Not Be Canonized</title>
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	<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/</link>
	<description>Where youthful Barthianism never dies</description>
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		<title>By: Andy Alexis-Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9820</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Alexis-Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9820</guid>
		<description>Do you always resort to name-calling when you don&#039;t know what you are talking about? You did it on another occasion that I can remember as well. To my recollection, even calling somebody a &quot;fool&quot; puts you in danger of hellfire. Watch your words.

This comment does not deserve to be on the blog Halden. Comments like this are simply ad hominem and not argumentation at all. Let this guy go back to his clique and be happy with himself. It does a disservice to Catholics to allow this type of comment that is not very thoughtful at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you always resort to name-calling when you don&#8217;t know what you are talking about? You did it on another occasion that I can remember as well. To my recollection, even calling somebody a &#8220;fool&#8221; puts you in danger of hellfire. Watch your words.</p>
<p>This comment does not deserve to be on the blog Halden. Comments like this are simply ad hominem and not argumentation at all. Let this guy go back to his clique and be happy with himself. It does a disservice to Catholics to allow this type of comment that is not very thoughtful at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Giunta</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9816</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Giunta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9816</guid>
		<description>Again, you&#039;re conflating conservatism with right-wing politics. Depending on the context, someone with a conservative worldview (e.g., Kirk) may indeed support policies which are left of center.

The Latin American Christian Democratic parties come to mind here. (The ones in Europe do tend to be center-right, with some notable exceptions.0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, you&#8217;re conflating conservatism with right-wing politics. Depending on the context, someone with a conservative worldview (e.g., Kirk) may indeed support policies which are left of center.</p>
<p>The Latin American Christian Democratic parties come to mind here. (The ones in Europe do tend to be center-right, with some notable exceptions.0</p>
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		<title>By: Devin Rose</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9787</link>
		<dc:creator>Devin Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9787</guid>
		<description>I would add that Catholics believe that the bishops are the successors of the Apostles, with of course the Bishop of Rome as the first among equals, who holds primacy; however, the other bishops are the rightful authorities and pastors of the faithful in their dioceses, and so the primary responsibility is theirs for not correctly disciplining or stopping the evil committed by priests and others in their diocese.

The Pope can certainly counsel his brother bishops in these matters of prudence and justice (and no doubt he did), but the bishops have the responsibility to take the appropriate actions.

As to the Fr. Maciel situation, it demonstrates that a cunning man can deceive the Pope about his character, which says nothing about the Pope&#039;s quality of heroic virtue or lack thereof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would add that Catholics believe that the bishops are the successors of the Apostles, with of course the Bishop of Rome as the first among equals, who holds primacy; however, the other bishops are the rightful authorities and pastors of the faithful in their dioceses, and so the primary responsibility is theirs for not correctly disciplining or stopping the evil committed by priests and others in their diocese.</p>
<p>The Pope can certainly counsel his brother bishops in these matters of prudence and justice (and no doubt he did), but the bishops have the responsibility to take the appropriate actions.</p>
<p>As to the Fr. Maciel situation, it demonstrates that a cunning man can deceive the Pope about his character, which says nothing about the Pope&#8217;s quality of heroic virtue or lack thereof.</p>
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		<title>By: Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9785</link>
		<dc:creator>Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9785</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m getting APS tattooed under my left eye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m getting APS tattooed under my left eye.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Paul Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9783</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Paul Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9783</guid>
		<description>My point is that the Catholic experience is varied and that it is also liable to change. While there is certainly a tendency towards conservative politics in the Roman church, it is not essential to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point is that the Catholic experience is varied and that it is also liable to change. While there is certainly a tendency towards conservative politics in the Roman church, it is not essential to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Giunta</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9778</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Giunta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9778</guid>
		<description>I think things are a lot more nuanced than either Mr. Smith or Theophilus take them. It&#039;s not the &quot;Vatican&quot; which defined Catholic tradition, but the Magisterium, in accordance with the greater orthodox tradition, which is informed by the sensus fidelium and yes, even folk piety.

There MUST be SOMETHING essential to Catholicism (and various political philosophies); otherwise, how is it even possible to speak of them intelligently? There may be SOME truth to the non-essentialist reading of religion, but its ultimately an unsatisfactory framework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think things are a lot more nuanced than either Mr. Smith or Theophilus take them. It&#8217;s not the &#8220;Vatican&#8221; which defined Catholic tradition, but the Magisterium, in accordance with the greater orthodox tradition, which is informed by the sensus fidelium and yes, even folk piety.</p>
<p>There MUST be SOMETHING essential to Catholicism (and various political philosophies); otherwise, how is it even possible to speak of them intelligently? There may be SOME truth to the non-essentialist reading of religion, but its ultimately an unsatisfactory framework.</p>
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		<title>By: Theophilus</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9777</link>
		<dc:creator>Theophilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9777</guid>
		<description>Your argument only works if you take Catholic folk practices to be the standard by which Catholicism is to be judged. Those who let the Vatican define what it is to be Catholic will heartily disagree with you, methinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument only works if you take Catholic folk practices to be the standard by which Catholicism is to be judged. Those who let the Vatican define what it is to be Catholic will heartily disagree with you, methinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Paul Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9776</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Paul Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9776</guid>
		<description>One need only do a bit of anthropology of indigenous Catholic groups to see that your essentialist view of religion and politics is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One need only do a bit of anthropology of indigenous Catholic groups to see that your essentialist view of religion and politics is wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Giunta</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9774</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Giunta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9774</guid>
		<description>Mr. Brad:

I am not familiar with either Baxter or Cavanaugh.  I know Burke himself has often been accused propounding some kind of blind historicism, but I don&#039;t feel such a reading does justice to his philosophy. 

Which of Kirk&#039;s ten principles do you find inimical to the Catholic tradition? As I understand it, he sees these as a distillation of thousands of years of speculation and lived experience, Greco-Roman-Judaeo-Christian. It seems no accident to me that the Catholic Church, given its history, would be a unique repository for this collected wisdom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Brad:</p>
<p>I am not familiar with either Baxter or Cavanaugh.  I know Burke himself has often been accused propounding some kind of blind historicism, but I don&#8217;t feel such a reading does justice to his philosophy. </p>
<p>Which of Kirk&#8217;s ten principles do you find inimical to the Catholic tradition? As I understand it, he sees these as a distillation of thousands of years of speculation and lived experience, Greco-Roman-Judaeo-Christian. It seems no accident to me that the Catholic Church, given its history, would be a unique repository for this collected wisdom.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad A.</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9773</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9773</guid>
		<description>Eric, I&#039;m curious whether you&#039;ve read the likes of William Cavanaugh, Michael Baxter, or other Catholics who have written in the past decade or so on the many ways Enlightenment liberalism - including the conservatism of Burke/Kirk - diverges from, and is in some instances directly contrary, to Christian orthodoxy.  As I read those ten principles, I see a number of items that seem questionable to me when juxtaposed to the Roman Catholic tradition(s).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, I&#8217;m curious whether you&#8217;ve read the likes of William Cavanaugh, Michael Baxter, or other Catholics who have written in the past decade or so on the many ways Enlightenment liberalism &#8211; including the conservatism of Burke/Kirk &#8211; diverges from, and is in some instances directly contrary, to Christian orthodoxy.  As I read those ten principles, I see a number of items that seem questionable to me when juxtaposed to the Roman Catholic tradition(s).</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Giunta</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9772</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Giunta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9772</guid>
		<description>Mr. Smith:

(Oops on the sylllabi! Shows I&#039;m not infallible after all!)

If you&#039;re truly serious about disputing the inherent conservatism of Catholic orthodoxy, I suggest you review the late Russel Kirk&#039;s &quot;Ten Conservative Principles&quot; and let me know which one of them you find inconsistent with that orthodoxy.

http://www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/ten-principles.html

Catholicism is a religious system which holds tradition in VERY high esteem, insists that there is a moral order which transcends the material world (and to which the latter must conform itself to), insists on the falleness of man&#039;s nature, respects hierarchy, teaches the principle of subsidiarity, has a very organic view of civil society, insists that changes in civil and ecclesial society should be prudent and organic, and fosters a love and devotion for the non-rational dimensions of the human experience. 

All this is quintessentially conservative, and avoids your error of implicitly mistaking principles for policies.Catholicism&#039;s inherent conservatism is not inconsistent with, say, the bishops&#039; opposition to the Iraq War, or their support for government-run insurance.

You may well object to my having recourse to Kirk as a conservative litmus test, but I do believe his distillation does justice to the greater conservative tradition, elucidated in his &quot;The Conservative Mind&quot; and contained in the writings of such luminaries as Burke, De Maistre, Newman, most of the American Founding Fathers, not to mention the conservative Big Lights, like William F. Buckley and Richard John Neuhaus.

Finally, you might wanna cut out the name-calling. It&#039;s a sign of intellectual weakness and insecurity, and degrades no one but the one who employs it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Smith:</p>
<p>(Oops on the sylllabi! Shows I&#8217;m not infallible after all!)</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re truly serious about disputing the inherent conservatism of Catholic orthodoxy, I suggest you review the late Russel Kirk&#8217;s &#8220;Ten Conservative Principles&#8221; and let me know which one of them you find inconsistent with that orthodoxy.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/ten-principles.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/ten-principles.html</a></p>
<p>Catholicism is a religious system which holds tradition in VERY high esteem, insists that there is a moral order which transcends the material world (and to which the latter must conform itself to), insists on the falleness of man&#8217;s nature, respects hierarchy, teaches the principle of subsidiarity, has a very organic view of civil society, insists that changes in civil and ecclesial society should be prudent and organic, and fosters a love and devotion for the non-rational dimensions of the human experience. </p>
<p>All this is quintessentially conservative, and avoids your error of implicitly mistaking principles for policies.Catholicism&#8217;s inherent conservatism is not inconsistent with, say, the bishops&#8217; opposition to the Iraq War, or their support for government-run insurance.</p>
<p>You may well object to my having recourse to Kirk as a conservative litmus test, but I do believe his distillation does justice to the greater conservative tradition, elucidated in his &#8220;The Conservative Mind&#8221; and contained in the writings of such luminaries as Burke, De Maistre, Newman, most of the American Founding Fathers, not to mention the conservative Big Lights, like William F. Buckley and Richard John Neuhaus.</p>
<p>Finally, you might wanna cut out the name-calling. It&#8217;s a sign of intellectual weakness and insecurity, and degrades no one but the one who employs it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Paul Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9766</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Paul Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9766</guid>
		<description>Right, so you are apparently so stupid that you can&#039;t tell when a person named Adam Kotsko (a REAL Catholic, as you say) is teaching a course and when a person named Anthony Paul Smith is teaching a course. Nice try though. You&#039;re also either stupid enough or cynical enough to try a bait and switch by attributing to me a statements I never made and ignorance that I do not harbor. I&#039;m speaking, of course, to your saying that I conflate conservativism with the Republican Party platform and that I didn&#039;t know the difference between modernism and modernity. It was a nice way of avoiding dealing with a problem in your thought, that is the conflation of dogmatic orthodoxy with political policies. Again, you present no evidence to your claim that Catholicism is inherently conservative and yet you just want us to bow and let you pass! As for my calling you a traditionalist, well perhaps you aren&#039;t a rank and file traditionalist, but you present a position very friendly to the traditionalist and it is clear that you sympathize with them, whereas it is very clear you do not sympathize with the leftist Catholic organizations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, so you are apparently so stupid that you can&#8217;t tell when a person named Adam Kotsko (a REAL Catholic, as you say) is teaching a course and when a person named Anthony Paul Smith is teaching a course. Nice try though. You&#8217;re also either stupid enough or cynical enough to try a bait and switch by attributing to me a statements I never made and ignorance that I do not harbor. I&#8217;m speaking, of course, to your saying that I conflate conservativism with the Republican Party platform and that I didn&#8217;t know the difference between modernism and modernity. It was a nice way of avoiding dealing with a problem in your thought, that is the conflation of dogmatic orthodoxy with political policies. Again, you present no evidence to your claim that Catholicism is inherently conservative and yet you just want us to bow and let you pass! As for my calling you a traditionalist, well perhaps you aren&#8217;t a rank and file traditionalist, but you present a position very friendly to the traditionalist and it is clear that you sympathize with them, whereas it is very clear you do not sympathize with the leftist Catholic organizations.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Imburgia</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9764</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Imburgia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9764</guid>
		<description>Reckon I will hold off on that tattoo till this gets sorted out, obliged, daniel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reckon I will hold off on that tattoo till this gets sorted out, obliged, daniel.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Giunta</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9763</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Giunta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 05:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9763</guid>
		<description>Mr. Smith:

I am afraid it is you, not I, who conflate &quot;conservatism&quot; with the Republican Party platform. The distinction between principles and policies also seems to elude you, which is why you take conception to my characterization of Catholic Christianity as an inherently conservative belief system, which it most certainly is. 

You also make assumptions about my beliefs (vis-a-vis doctrinal development, for instance) which are not warranted by my published writing. I certainly am not a &quot;traditionalist&quot; in the sense REAL Catholic &quot;traditionalists&quot; use the term.

The rest of your post is hardly worth responding to: typical professorial ad hominem. Get back to me when you figure out the difference between modernity and modernism, and when you&#039;re honest enough to take your cultural liberalism to its logical conclusion and start renaming the days of the week.

(I&#039;ve browsed through your course syllabi. I&#039;m truly moved by your multicultural sensitivity in employing the BCE/CE dating system. But I remain offended by the fact that my days of the week continue to be named after pagan deities I no longer worship. Be REALLY sensitive to your students and let them know that your Classical Christian Thought I is gonna be meeting on Tridi and Quintidi!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Smith:</p>
<p>I am afraid it is you, not I, who conflate &#8220;conservatism&#8221; with the Republican Party platform. The distinction between principles and policies also seems to elude you, which is why you take conception to my characterization of Catholic Christianity as an inherently conservative belief system, which it most certainly is. </p>
<p>You also make assumptions about my beliefs (vis-a-vis doctrinal development, for instance) which are not warranted by my published writing. I certainly am not a &#8220;traditionalist&#8221; in the sense REAL Catholic &#8220;traditionalists&#8221; use the term.</p>
<p>The rest of your post is hardly worth responding to: typical professorial ad hominem. Get back to me when you figure out the difference between modernity and modernism, and when you&#8217;re honest enough to take your cultural liberalism to its logical conclusion and start renaming the days of the week.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;ve browsed through your course syllabi. I&#8217;m truly moved by your multicultural sensitivity in employing the BCE/CE dating system. But I remain offended by the fact that my days of the week continue to be named after pagan deities I no longer worship. Be REALLY sensitive to your students and let them know that your Classical Christian Thought I is gonna be meeting on Tridi and Quintidi!)</p>
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		<title>By: Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2009/08/14/why-jpii-should-not-be-canonized/comment-page-1/#comment-9761</link>
		<dc:creator>Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 03:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=2730#comment-9761</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point.</p>
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