Comments on: Imitators of God?

By: bruce hamill

bruce hamill — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:09:48 +0000

Beautiful as ever, Kim, particularly the Marcionism comment, for all its danger

By: Halden

Halden — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:17:07 +0000

Wait, I thought we were talking about the guy from Lost. . .

By: roger flyer

roger flyer — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:14:28 +0000

@Kim
For sure there will be surprises at the Last Judgement – Matthew 25:31ff.! – but they won’t have to do with nature and character of the God disclosed in Jesus. What we’ve seen is what we’ll get.

Hallelujah.

At the far end of heaven, there. Is that the Irish scaling the wall?

By: roger flyer

roger flyer — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:12:43 +0000

Halden-
I love your passion in this post. This is something you can really get your teeth into!
and very important stuff…

By: Hill

Hill — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:35:10 +0000

That’s the Desmond I’m talking about.

By: R.O. Flyer

R.O. Flyer — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:50:35 +0000

Who is this? William Desmond?

By: kim fabricius

kim fabricius — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:59:22 +0000

@James,
My old teacher at Oxford Geoge Caird insisted that the eschatology not only of John but also of Paul – and indeed the entire NT – is essentially, if not exclusively, realised. The uniqueness of John is simply that “the End is so totally identified with Christ that eschatology is transposed into Christology” (New Testament Theology, p. 263). But even for writers like the author of Hebrews – indeed even the author of Revelation – who speak of the imminence of salvation/judgement, their sense of “urgency derives not from any belief in the nearness of the Parousia; it comes from the finality of the word which God has spoken in Christ” (p. 264). The life, and of course especially the death and resurrection of Jesus – these are the fundamental apocalypic events. For sure there will be surprises at the Last Judgement – Matthew 25:31ff.! – but they won’t have to do with nature and character of the God disclosed in Jesus. What we’ve seen is what we’ll get.

@ Jeremy,
In the joke, Peter is at the pearly gates giving a hard time to those waiting to get in, when he hears of a big commotion at the far-end of heaven; then a messenger arrives with the explanation that “It’s Jesus again, Pete, giving a hand to those climbing the wall to get in.”

But helping them to get out is an interesting take, along the lines of Mark Twain’s “heaven for the climate, hell for the company.”

By: Jeremy G

Jeremy G — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:39:21 +0000

Kim, not having heard the joke, I’m curious…is Jesus helping ‘them’ over to get in, or to get out? One answer is much funnier than the other, I suspect, but I fear my disturbed sense of humor has it wrong.
Jeremy G

By: Brad A.

Brad A. — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:28:31 +0000

Ahhhhhh…

By: Halden

Halden — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:22:13 +0000

Use <> instead of brackets and you’ll be golden.

By: Halden

Halden — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:27:54 +0000

I hear you on that. I guess I would say that many of the giants we idealize were greatly flawed as well. This should not discourage us, but hopefully spur us on to live ever further and deeper into the agape that sent Christ to the cross for us and for our salvation.

By: Gordon Brown

Gordon Brown — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:16:07 +0000

As a father who has gone through a similar situation, I appreciate how such events in life lead to a degree of enlightenment about what this difficult life is all about, and what foci are significant. And I agree with your list that it is never lived out perfectly. But even a quick glance at the NT – and early Fathers – suggests that this agape we are asked to ‘inhabit’ through the Spirit produced individuals of such an overwhelmingly powerful character that I don’t actually know anyone who is in the same league. My mind especially goes to Cyprian of Carthage. But while I know of some who now suffer persecution in other lands whose stories I see as powerful images of imitatio Christi, in my little bleak Northern Ireland that has quickly moved from violence to intense consumerism there seems little power of the Spirit to endure.

Perhaps I’m just mixing with the wrong crowd! But I yearn for mentors of such spirit-driven character.

By: james

james — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:03:01 +0000

Kim, like Halden, you’re over-egging the argument with John. The eschatology of the prophets, Paul, and the synoptics is being harmonized with an eschatology from John that would/did freak them out. Why are we pretending this is what they had in mind as well? I understand choices must be made, but wouldn’t it be easier to corral John’s more unwieldy views (as nearly everyone always has)? John’s community clearly was domesticated somewhat or lost when it’s gospel slowly was adopted alongside the rest of the canon. The process here seems reversed.

“Letting God be the one who defines his judgment (or wrath or love)” appears to mean just becoming an advocate for Johannine theology against an otherwise standard eschatology. Instead of “God, not man decides”, we get “(Non-standard reading of ) John not Paul decides”.

By: Brad A.

Brad A. — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:50:01 +0000

Btw, how are you doing the italics, etc. here? Obviously, what I tried above didn’t work.

By: d. stephen long

d. stephen long — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:42:23 +0000

I concur as well. I remember coming home with my daughter from our local high school performance of Godspell where primarily Jewish kids played the roles and much of it said and sung Hebrew. My teenage daughter was moved by the performance, but visibly troubled. She finally asked me if we Christians believed all Jews had to go to hell. I asked her if she wanted all Jews to go to hell. She said, “of course not.” Then I said, “Don’t you think the Triune God of the universe is at least as compassionate as you?” I didn’t often give my kids sage counsel, but I’d stick by this one. It doesn’t mean, of course, that there is no judgment. But it does mean that, as the creed puts it, the one who endured the cross is the one who will judge the quick and the dead.