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	<title>Comments on: Kingdom-World-Church: Some Provisional Theses</title>
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	<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/</link>
	<description>Where youthful Barthianism never dies</description>
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		<title>By: DCL Driedger</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-2/#comment-16195</link>
		<dc:creator>DCL Driedger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-16195</guid>
		<description>Yup, still giving &lt;a href=&quot;http://thedescribe.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/peter-blum-on-impossibility-and-the-churchs-syntactical-relationship-with-the-poor/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;grist for the mill&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, still giving <a href="http://thedescribe.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/peter-blum-on-impossibility-and-the-churchs-syntactical-relationship-with-the-poor/" rel="nofollow">grist for the mill</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: jnugent</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-2/#comment-15907</link>
		<dc:creator>jnugent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 09:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15907</guid>
		<description>I first want to applaud the movement of these theses. The EP movement, of which I am happily a part, once seemed poised between high church Hauerwas and low church Yoder. The ecumenical-dialectical tension was delightful and fruitful. Lately, however, it seems like the low church pole is dwindling, which has some people feeling out of place. I hope these conversations will help ameliorate the imbalance, though I fear they may only push us further apart. Thank you for unsettling things.

Three initial questions of clarification. (1) What do the dashes signify in &quot;God-world-church&quot;? The answer to this may head off my next question. (2) You say that the above order is that of God’s missionary existence in Christ. I took that to mean that God sent Christ to the world and the church followed from that. But that is not quite the canonical order. God sent Christ to gather only the Jews (to the Syro-Phoenician woman’s chagrin); then Christ sent these gathered Jews into the world. In fact, it may be that the primary reason for the partial post-exilic return to “the land” (Ezr-Neh) was so the Gospel could go forth in diasporic fashion “beginning from Jerusalem” in fulfillment of the Scriptures (Luke 24:44-47), thereby honoring God’s appointed role for his people Israel. Christ’s refusal to embark on the Gentile mission independent of this gathered people was necessitated by his claim to be the one Israel awaited and to fulfill Torah--presumably including its founding promise that all nations will be blessed through Abraham’s descendents. Do I misunderstand you here? The Scriptures? (3) As someone whose dissertation focused on a Yoderian reading of the OT and its implications for ecclesiology, it is not clear to me how an event-constituted church stands in fundamental continuity with the Old Testament narrative, which appears to identify the formation of a people (Gen 12-Malachi) as God’s answer to the problem of global degradation resulting from sin (Gen 6)—an answer that honors his postdiluvian covenant not to destroy creation again (Gen 8-9). I agree (and argue elsewhere) that a diaspora-constituted church stands in fundamental continuity with the OT (and affirm defining diaspora as the intensification of landedness rather than the renunciation thereof), but can church-as-event uphold the same level of canonical continuity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first want to applaud the movement of these theses. The EP movement, of which I am happily a part, once seemed poised between high church Hauerwas and low church Yoder. The ecumenical-dialectical tension was delightful and fruitful. Lately, however, it seems like the low church pole is dwindling, which has some people feeling out of place. I hope these conversations will help ameliorate the imbalance, though I fear they may only push us further apart. Thank you for unsettling things.</p>
<p>Three initial questions of clarification. (1) What do the dashes signify in &#8220;God-world-church&#8221;? The answer to this may head off my next question. (2) You say that the above order is that of God’s missionary existence in Christ. I took that to mean that God sent Christ to the world and the church followed from that. But that is not quite the canonical order. God sent Christ to gather only the Jews (to the Syro-Phoenician woman’s chagrin); then Christ sent these gathered Jews into the world. In fact, it may be that the primary reason for the partial post-exilic return to “the land” (Ezr-Neh) was so the Gospel could go forth in diasporic fashion “beginning from Jerusalem” in fulfillment of the Scriptures (Luke 24:44-47), thereby honoring God’s appointed role for his people Israel. Christ’s refusal to embark on the Gentile mission independent of this gathered people was necessitated by his claim to be the one Israel awaited and to fulfill Torah&#8211;presumably including its founding promise that all nations will be blessed through Abraham’s descendents. Do I misunderstand you here? The Scriptures? (3) As someone whose dissertation focused on a Yoderian reading of the OT and its implications for ecclesiology, it is not clear to me how an event-constituted church stands in fundamental continuity with the Old Testament narrative, which appears to identify the formation of a people (Gen 12-Malachi) as God’s answer to the problem of global degradation resulting from sin (Gen 6)—an answer that honors his postdiluvian covenant not to destroy creation again (Gen 8-9). I agree (and argue elsewhere) that a diaspora-constituted church stands in fundamental continuity with the OT (and affirm defining diaspora as the intensification of landedness rather than the renunciation thereof), but can church-as-event uphold the same level of canonical continuity?</p>
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		<title>By: adhunt</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-2/#comment-15899</link>
		<dc:creator>adhunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15899</guid>
		<description>I gave a response a shot...be nice!

http://theophiliacs.com/2010/06/17/some-thoughts-on-the-apocalyptic-theses/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave a response a shot&#8230;be nice!</p>
<p><a href="http://theophiliacs.com/2010/06/17/some-thoughts-on-the-apocalyptic-theses/" rel="nofollow">http://theophiliacs.com/2010/06/17/some-thoughts-on-the-apocalyptic-theses/</a></p>
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		<title>By: dbarber</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-2/#comment-15896</link>
		<dc:creator>dbarber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15896</guid>
		<description>http://itself.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/on-the-critique-of-religion/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://itself.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/on-the-critique-of-religion/" rel="nofollow">http://itself.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/on-the-critique-of-religion/</a></p>
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		<title>By: roger flyer</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-2/#comment-15892</link>
		<dc:creator>roger flyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15892</guid>
		<description>Oh. Can someone &#039;outside&#039; ask what that means in real time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh. Can someone &#8216;outside&#8217; ask what that means in real time?</p>
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		<title>By: d w horstkoetter</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15891</link>
		<dc:creator>d w horstkoetter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15891</guid>
		<description>I read it too. So make that two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read it too. So make that two.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad A.</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15890</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15890</guid>
		<description>I think Steve&#039;s point was the irony of the strident defense of the art even while the ostensibly Christian seminary in question prohibited crosses in its classrooms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Steve&#8217;s point was the irony of the strident defense of the art even while the ostensibly Christian seminary in question prohibited crosses in its classrooms.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Paul Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15889</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Paul Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15889</guid>
		<description>I just find the whole &quot;stand against vagina art&quot; silly. Sort of like this debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just find the whole &#8220;stand against vagina art&#8221; silly. Sort of like this debate.</p>
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		<title>By: roger flyer</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15888</link>
		<dc:creator>roger flyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15888</guid>
		<description>@ Stephen-I think this is wise, thoughtful, gracious. I still think the word &#039;heterodox&#039; is very unhelpful in this conversation. And I hope the trio responds succinctly to your questions...

As to our meeting at Halden&#039;s, I cannot buy your plane ticket, but I will buy the first beer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Stephen-I think this is wise, thoughtful, gracious. I still think the word &#8216;heterodox&#8217; is very unhelpful in this conversation. And I hope the trio responds succinctly to your questions&#8230;</p>
<p>As to our meeting at Halden&#8217;s, I cannot buy your plane ticket, but I will buy the first beer.</p>
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		<title>By: d. stephen long</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15885</link>
		<dc:creator>d. stephen long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15885</guid>
		<description>I always come too late to these discussions. How do y&#039;all have time to keep up? It took me a while to read quickly back through the posts. I&#039;m always up for a visit to Portland;  I hope Roger&#039;s invitation includes airfare!  The beer is mighty good, but then I drink Schaefer beer so what do I know. I didn&#039;t like my post at church and pomo so I retracted it. I didn&#039;t want it to be my only public statement on these theses. Sorry if that caused folk trouble, and I really apologize if I made Anthony feel like I called into question his collection of vagina art. (I personally find it dull, unimaginative and trite -- like that great scene from the film &quot;Fried Green Tomatoes.&quot;) I would stick by the charge of &quot;heterodox&quot; to some aspects of these  theses. I did not make the accusation of &quot;heresy.&quot; The former is a deviation from an assumed traditional teaching that does not have dogmatic status. I still think the crucial issue among us is the &quot;Totus Christus.&quot; Do our bodies -- those of the baptized who seek to live in peace and reconciliation and receive Christ through Word and Sacrament  -- ontologically make up the body of Christ via participation and/or deification? I would say yes. We are, and are to be, the living stones of the Temple. We are this because God acts in specific places like baptism, Eucharist and the hearing of the Word. From what I understand, I don&#039;t think those who would ascribe to these theses can affirm that. As you develop them further, please address the &quot;Totus Christus&quot; and the threefold body of Christ. I would also worry about a kind of &#039;Nestorianism,&#039; and I think this gets at Billy&#039;s important post. The hypostatic union, so central to Barth, states that unlike God&#039;s presence in the Temple; God gives himself completely to Jesus such that he is &quot;hypostatically (substantially) united&quot; -- a single acting subject who is fully divine and human. This is eternal; it cannot now be other. So God hands himself over to us -- Mary gives birth to God, his body is carried to the tomb, and at the Eucharist we lift the body of God up and invite people to see the Word. Nonetheless God gives himself over to us without divinity ceasing to be divinity and humanity to be humanity. I don&#039;t know if this is an Anabaptist position, but I think it should be just as I think Catholics should embrace giving and receiving counsel and putting away the sword. As you develop these theses I do hope you will explain how they are not &#039;Nestorian&#039; -- how they can account for the hypostatic union, which alone makes participation/deification possible. Finally, I think the reference to the &#039;analogia entis&#039; is too simple. I said in private correspondence to Nate, Ry and Halden that the crucial question is which version? Lateran IV? Neoscholastic? Przywara&#039;s? I have actually critiqued it and sided with Barth in Speaking of God; something Jamie Smith affirmed. I don&#039;t think anybody but Jamie read that book. Some of the discussion simply gets the facts wrong. But there are also versions of the analogia entis that I think are undeniably Christian and impossible to avoid. Hope this helps as I reflect on these theses from a less reactive place. Remember that some of us did not have computers until graduate school or after so we don&#039;t do this blog thing well. I have my reservations about it, but I know it is here to stay and can be useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always come too late to these discussions. How do y&#8217;all have time to keep up? It took me a while to read quickly back through the posts. I&#8217;m always up for a visit to Portland;  I hope Roger&#8217;s invitation includes airfare!  The beer is mighty good, but then I drink Schaefer beer so what do I know. I didn&#8217;t like my post at church and pomo so I retracted it. I didn&#8217;t want it to be my only public statement on these theses. Sorry if that caused folk trouble, and I really apologize if I made Anthony feel like I called into question his collection of vagina art. (I personally find it dull, unimaginative and trite &#8212; like that great scene from the film &#8220;Fried Green Tomatoes.&#8221;) I would stick by the charge of &#8220;heterodox&#8221; to some aspects of these  theses. I did not make the accusation of &#8220;heresy.&#8221; The former is a deviation from an assumed traditional teaching that does not have dogmatic status. I still think the crucial issue among us is the &#8220;Totus Christus.&#8221; Do our bodies &#8212; those of the baptized who seek to live in peace and reconciliation and receive Christ through Word and Sacrament  &#8212; ontologically make up the body of Christ via participation and/or deification? I would say yes. We are, and are to be, the living stones of the Temple. We are this because God acts in specific places like baptism, Eucharist and the hearing of the Word. From what I understand, I don&#8217;t think those who would ascribe to these theses can affirm that. As you develop them further, please address the &#8220;Totus Christus&#8221; and the threefold body of Christ. I would also worry about a kind of &#8216;Nestorianism,&#8217; and I think this gets at Billy&#8217;s important post. The hypostatic union, so central to Barth, states that unlike God&#8217;s presence in the Temple; God gives himself completely to Jesus such that he is &#8220;hypostatically (substantially) united&#8221; &#8212; a single acting subject who is fully divine and human. This is eternal; it cannot now be other. So God hands himself over to us &#8212; Mary gives birth to God, his body is carried to the tomb, and at the Eucharist we lift the body of God up and invite people to see the Word. Nonetheless God gives himself over to us without divinity ceasing to be divinity and humanity to be humanity. I don&#8217;t know if this is an Anabaptist position, but I think it should be just as I think Catholics should embrace giving and receiving counsel and putting away the sword. As you develop these theses I do hope you will explain how they are not &#8216;Nestorian&#8217; &#8212; how they can account for the hypostatic union, which alone makes participation/deification possible. Finally, I think the reference to the &#8216;analogia entis&#8217; is too simple. I said in private correspondence to Nate, Ry and Halden that the crucial question is which version? Lateran IV? Neoscholastic? Przywara&#8217;s? I have actually critiqued it and sided with Barth in Speaking of God; something Jamie Smith affirmed. I don&#8217;t think anybody but Jamie read that book. Some of the discussion simply gets the facts wrong. But there are also versions of the analogia entis that I think are undeniably Christian and impossible to avoid. Hope this helps as I reflect on these theses from a less reactive place. Remember that some of us did not have computers until graduate school or after so we don&#8217;t do this blog thing well. I have my reservations about it, but I know it is here to stay and can be useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Imburgia</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15882</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Imburgia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 01:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15882</guid>
		<description>By ‘protocol’ I’m thinking of this veering from deep thinking, theoretical/speculative theology to address someone’s personal challenges.  Hopefully Halden will schedule some time at his upcoming NW Conference on “Kingdom-World-Church: Apocalypse as Mission for the 21st Century,” for swapping recipes, mixology, and music (I just got a new lap-steel guitar I am hoping to break in).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By ‘protocol’ I’m thinking of this veering from deep thinking, theoretical/speculative theology to address someone’s personal challenges.  Hopefully Halden will schedule some time at his upcoming NW Conference on “Kingdom-World-Church: Apocalypse as Mission for the 21st Century,” for swapping recipes, mixology, and music (I just got a new lap-steel guitar I am hoping to break in).</p>
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		<title>By: roger flyer</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15881</link>
		<dc:creator>roger flyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 23:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15881</guid>
		<description>@ Daniel-
the Kingdom of God is within you, and it shines on us in cyberspace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Daniel-<br />
the Kingdom of God is within you, and it shines on us in cyberspace.</p>
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		<title>By: roger flyer</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15880</link>
		<dc:creator>roger flyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 23:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15880</guid>
		<description>Protocol?...
hmmm...
ha ha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Protocol?&#8230;<br />
hmmm&#8230;<br />
ha ha</p>
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		<title>By: roger flyer</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15879</link>
		<dc:creator>roger flyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 23:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15879</guid>
		<description>I would show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would show.</p>
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		<title>By: Halden</title>
		<link>http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/2010/06/08/kingdom-world-church-some-provisional-theses/comment-page-1/#comment-15878</link>
		<dc:creator>Halden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 23:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inhabitatiodei.com/?p=3795#comment-15878</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll think about it. Might be kind of fun to see who would show up at something like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll think about it. Might be kind of fun to see who would show up at something like that.</p>
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